Michigander Chris Orrick, better known as Red Pill, has made making music his priority since age 12. Coming from a working class family, Red Pill valued education and took the time to get his degree in political science from Michigan State. After college, he spent his days in a factory doing menial labor, all the while never putting hip hop on the back burner. During his education and the years that followed Red Pill was working on his craft and collaborating with producer Hir-O on Dream Within A Dream, Waiting On A Train, and The Kick.
It was in fact back in 2009 that Red Pill and Apollo Brown first crossed paths. They were both judges for a beat battle in Michigan. Four years later the two linked up with Verbal Kent to form Ugly Heroes. Together, the group pledged to rap for the everyday blue collar heroes who make the world go around. Red Pill's performance on the group's first release, a self-titled 17-track album, garnered the attention of Mello Music Group (home to L'Orange, Apollo Brown, Open Mike Eagle, and Quelle Chris) who signed him before the album had officially dropped.
Red Pill's debut project with Mello Music Group was Look What This World Did To Us, a dejected rumination on the unbeatable game full of false hope that is life. But beyond that, the album acts as an escape out of a hopeless depression. By expressing all of his negative thought and emotion as Red Pill, Chris Orrick is able to see beyond the bleak and enjoy the true riches of life - his girlfriend, family, friends, food, drink, and music. And what's more, others struggling with similar realizations about life can find solace in their ability to relate to Look What This World Did To Us and feel understood themselves. Red Pill has an EP coming out in the fall and another solo album anticipated to come out next year.
OK-Tho:
In an interview with Passion of The Weiss, when asked about the making of Look What This World Did To Us you said that “the biggest challenge early on was getting anybody to want to work with me for beats.” I was under the impression that you produced the album yourself. Is this not the case?
Red Pill:
So, I produced four of the tracks on the album. The other eight (ten including the bonus tracks) were produced by a number of other producers.
OK-Tho:
Which did you produce? Who else did you work with?
Red Pill:
I produced "Rum & Coke", "Ten Year Party", "Smoke Rings" and the title track. The other producers were Duke Westlake, L'Orange, Hir-O, Dayggs, Castle, Ghost McGrady and KuroiOto. A mix of friends and Mello Music Group affiliated producers.
OK-Tho:
Did you produce the tracks you produced out of desire or necessity?
Red Pill:
A mix of both I guess. I don't consider myself a producer at all. I like making beats here and there. The vast majority of them never see the light of day because I don't think they're good enough. Initially, I started producing out of necessity, on my earlier projects. I didn't really have any connections to producers I felt fit my style, so I started making beats for myself. For this album, "Look What This World Did To Us", there were just a couple tracks I really needed to get out and couldn't find the right beats for them, so I decided to try to make them myself and they came out good enough, at least to me, that I decided to use them.
OK-Tho:
What do you mean when you say you needed to get those tracks out?
Red Pill:
I just had very specific ideas in mind, specific vibes I was looking for especially on "Rum & Coke" and "Look What This World Did To Us" (the title track), that I couldn't find in any of the beats I had been sent. 99% of the time when I set out to make a beat with specific ideas in mind, it never works out, in the case of these they came out almost exactly how I intended them to.
OK-Tho:
Yeah, I think your commitment to making sure that specific vibe was achieved, even if that meant making the beat yourself, is what makes those tracks some of the best on the album.
How are Red Pill and Chris Orrick different?
Red Pill:
Well, I think for the most part they aren't different. Even as I talk about both of them in third person haha. One thing I've always tried to do is keep the rapper I am as honest to the person I am. I guess, in general, Red Pill tends to be a much sadder person all the time than I am. All of the depression and the problems I talk about in my music are very real things I deal with, but I'm not such a downer as Red Pill is -- at least not all the time lol. I write to get that person, that shitty, depressed guy out of my mind. So listeners are getting the toxic side of me, all of the time. I guess that's the main difference.
OK-Tho:
That makes sense. It's good to hear that Hip-Hop is therapeutic for you. I think that when you write for yourself instead of to please listeners it results in more genuine and, therefore, better music
Red Pill:
I'd be lying if I said I didn't have listeners, bloggers, the label, my friends, everyone in mind when I'm writing. I'm always conscious of the fact that my words will be heard by other people. I don't think it's a bad thing, though. It makes me want to be better.
OK-Tho:
What is your process for finding things to sample?
Red Pill:
it's really nothing crazy. I hear something I like, I find it and try to sample it. Like I said, I'm not a producer. So I'm not digging for that next sample all the time. I'm not searching for shit. In fact, three of the tracks I made for the record I ripped from YouTube. I think a lot of people are doing that now.
OK-Tho:
The sample that starts Look What This World Did to Us on “Meh” is superb. What is that from and what does it mean that you start the album with that disclaimer?
Red Pill:
In its actual context, that quote is talking about serial killers, murderers. He's almost admiring their freedom, their ability to just be a piece of shit who does exactly what they want, even killing others. But I cut that part out and what it meant for me, and a big theme throughout the album, is doing what you want in your life. The ultimate goal of life is happiness and you should seek that in whatever way you want. I'm sure as I get older I'll regret saying it, but I mean that without regard. Do what you want, what makes you happy, even if it hurts you. The problem with that logic is that, in the long run, hurting yourself for your own happiness hurts others. Both ideas, the original quote, and the meaning I've applied are related.
OK-Tho:
So you would say do what you want even if it hurts you, but not if it hurts others? Or where do you draw the line?
Red Pill:
Well, that's where in retrospect, even the album having come out just a few months ago, the idea of doing exactly what you want to achieve your own happiness could definitely be a little immature. But hopefully, people find a way to go after their own happiness that doesn't conflict with others.
OK-Tho:
Do you speak from experience when you say to do what makes you happy can hurt those around you? If so what happened?
Red Pill:
I guess so. Part of the album is a story of my drinking, my issues with depression that impacted the relationship with my girlfriend. I guess initially things like drinking, or drugs, or whatever, are a lot of fun and when you continue to do that, eventually it wears on the people around you and hurts them in the end.
OK-Tho:
At some point on a bunch of songs on the album (Meh, Windows, Smoke Rings, Rum & Coke, Drown, Look What this World Did To Us) there seems to be a you or a her you are addressing. Is that your girlfriend in all of those songs?
Red Pill:
Yep. She's a main character on the album. I used to try to write like one "love song" or one relationship song on my albums, but that really cheapens relationships in terms of art I think. She's part of my entire life, not just a person I'm going to write a sad and/or happy song about. In that sense, it feels like an obligation, rather than a relationship that is much more complex than just a quick love song. And there's nothing wrong with those, just for this record I felt she was a main character and played a role throughout
OK-Tho:
Yeah, I never really thought of it that way, but it does seem to make it an obligation more than a desire to express feelings. Who are the other main characters on the album?
Red Pill:
Me I guess lol. Alcohol becomes a personification at points.
OK-Tho:
How did you balance Hip-Hop and your education?
Red Pill:
I always kept music as my first priority. My Dad really pushed me to go to college. And I don't blame him. I'm happy I went. He's struggled with money his entire life and always told that if I didn't want to end up like him, I should go to school. From early on it was pretty expected of me to go to college. But music has been my goal since I was 12. I never really had to try in school, from elementary to my time at Michigan State University. I was always able to maintain decent grades without much effort, so I could always focus on music. It got tough at certain points. But I also valued my education and wanted to make sure I got a degree.
OK-Tho:
What was the moment or event that made you realize so young that you wanted to make music?
Red Pill:
I had been in choir and band in elementary school, I was always interested in music. But when I was 12 my family got evicted and we moved to a different city. I think moving really changed me, I started writing a lot. Music was really, as lame as it sounds, my only friend. I started writing and I loved it, so I kept doing it. It was a process more than one event.
OK-Tho:
Would you ever do a track with Action Bronson?
Red Pill:
Yeah for sure, Bronson is dope. Rare Chandeliers is one of my favorite recent records. In the end he probably shouldn't have said what he said about Ghostface, but I can understand constant comparisons driving you crazy. I'd absolutely work with him if the opportunity came up.
OK-Tho:
Do you drink while recording?
Red Pill:
Never. There's this image of recording sessions that go late nights, with booze and weed. I'm sure that happens. But I'm a late morning, early afternoon, totally sober session kind of guy. I drink water and smoke cigarettes. That's it.
OK-Tho:
But you drink before you preform right? I recall reading that in an interview. Im not just assuming haha
Red Pill:
I do haha. I range from a beer or two to 5 or 6 drinks to totally destroyed, all depending on whether I have to drive and how important I think the performance is, which is terrible to say haha. But generally, I like a couple drinks before I hit the stage. I'm about to go on a three month 60 date European/North American run where I think I'll figure out that alcohol before performing is not a good idea lol
OK-Tho:
Hahah well whatever works, Im sure you will rock every show either way. So why do you drink before shows but not when recording? Is it because of the crowd
Red Pill:
Yeah it's a little bit of confidence for sure. You can get away with a little bit of sloppiness in a performance, especially if you make it up with talking shit between songs haha. Recordings you gotta be on point. Most people would tell me I'm an idiot for saying that. They're lame.
OK-Tho:
Can you give us a timeline of the making of Look What This World Did To Us?
Red Pill:
From when I sat down to make it, to when it was finished was like December 2014 to May 2015. Didn't get mixed and mastered for another few months, mostly because we had time. We knew it wasn't coming out until 2015, so we had some time. But a lot of the ideas and songs had been floating around in my head for about at least a year before that.
OK-Tho:
Have you ever seen the “NaNa” music video with Chance The Rapper, Hannibal Buress, and $5,000?
Red Pill:
Nah I haven't, Fan of both of them though.
OK-Tho:
So these people give chance the rapper and Hannibal Buress the comedian 5k to make a music video and they do. My question is, if you could do that same type of thing with Louis CK, what would you do with the money?
Red Pill:
I'd go pay people's bills. Which is the lamest music video ever haha
OK-Tho:
haha I could see it. I definitly would watch you and CK helping people out with the paperwork and all that. Real intense shots and cuts. Would you pay random peoples bills or people you know?
Red Pill:
Random. Though I'd love for it to be people I know, I'd want to help random people out
OK-Tho:
You’ve said you appreciate Louie CK’s ability to take very normal annoyances everyone notices and point them out in an entertaining way. Do you ever try to do that in your songs?
I feel like “Meh has a lot of good examples of that. Like the line about not getting the chicken out of the freezer or the line about wanting food to materialize by standing in front of the fridge.
Red Pill:
Absolutely. That's his genius and that's something I aspire to do. My favorite comedy, my favorite music, art in general, is the shit that hits you in the face with the simplicities of life I didn't have the sense to observe and talk about. I'm always paying attention to what people say and do to try to find those subtleties. The "why didn't I think of that" shit
OK-Tho:
On “Rap Game Cranky” you say you shop at Kohl’s. Is that true? Because I’m all about Kohl’s.
Red Pill:
Haha. Yep. I'm all about Kohl's. I have no illusions about my fashion choices. Not betting on those to take me far. Not exclusively, but I'm a department store shopper for sure. Plus, name brand shit hate fat people. I can't find shit that fits me most places. Most places stop at 36" waists and XL shirts. Can't do it lol
OK-Tho:
In the hook for “Rap Game Cranky” you say “How am I supposed to live I gotta work to stay alive?” What does living life entail in your eyes?
Red Pill:
Being able to have time and money to do what I want. When I was working at the plant, I simultaneously was working 6-7 days a week and still broke. And for a lot of people, you're either working all the time to make money and then don't have time to spend the money you're making, or you're not working much but don't have money to do things you like to do. I'm a pretty simple guy. My favorite things in life are my girlfriend, family, friends, good food, drinks and music. That's a good life to me.
OK-Tho:
Who was typically in the studio with you when you were making the album?
Red Pill:
Me and my engineer Charlie Beans. I don't do that bunch of people in the studio shit. Me and the engineer and that's it.
OK-Tho:
What kind of headphones do you wear?
Red Pill:
Casually, like going to the gym just $15 Sony earbuds. But I listen to music at home on Sennheiser HD 280 pros. Affordable headphones with great range. Not that Beats by Dre over the top bass shit. I like a nice clean sound that hits all the ranges nicely.
OK-Tho:
What is your favorite poetic device to employ in your raps?
Red Pill:
Rhyme. haha. I mean that seriously though. I like metaphor, I like alliteration, I like all that. But my main focus is saying exactly what I want to say. I'm not worried about multis and shit, at least not as my main focus. If something makes sense, I use it. But my ultimate goal is saying what I want to say through rhyming. I love simplicity. I'm not a punchline rapper. If I can rhyme cat with hat and make it meaningful, that's all I care about. Hip Hop has made the term "lyricism" mean multisyllabic rhymes, crazy schemes, metaphor, wordplay. The dictionary definition of "lyricism" is "an artist's expression of emotion in an imaginative and beautiful way". That's what I try to do.
OK-Tho:
I really relate to the line from “Smoke Rings” “Hang out with strangers that I call my friends” Can you talk a little bit more about the feeling or thought that it came from?
Red Pill:
It means a couple things I guess. First I meant it in that as you grow up, see old friends less and less, interactions sometimes start to get more awkward and less casual. I think it's really in the details. If I go visit friends that I used to see 4 or 5 times a week, I'm really into their everyday lives, I know what's going on with them and therefore know what to talk about. But when you only see people every couple months or so, you sort of have to focus on bigger events. Or they have to contextualize things for you when they're telling a story about something that happened. So you can start feeling left out of the loop. People you used to consider best friends can start feeling a little like strangers.
OK-Tho:
In “Smoke Rings” you also say “If nothing else motherfucker I dream” What are your dreams?
Red Pill:
Living comfortably from my music. Not rich, just being able to pay my bills, help my family, take my girl on vacation.
OK-Tho:
What do you mean in "10 Year Party" when you say if you have money you don't need to dream?
Red Pill:
There's a lot of shitty aspects of having no money, of struggling. But it keeps you hungry, it keeps you reaching and keeps you dreaming about something better. Our whole life is based on economy. It's based on finding a way to survive. And that builds character. So as much as I've struggled, I love what I've been through. It makes us stronger in the end. Not to say people who have grown up with money don't have dreams or aspirations, but struggle grounds us and makes us humble.
OK-Tho:
What was the first flat brim hat you wore?
Red Pill:
Oh man, I have no idea honestly haha. Might have been a Shady Records hat I had when I was like 13 or something. Not sure.
OK-Tho:
Who is included in the “us” of the album title Look What This World Did To Us? Does that definition of “us” change when it comes to the song of the same name?
Red Pill:
It means different things depending on the song really. On a macro level it means people from our generation, people in their 20s and early 30s still trying to figure this whole thing out. On the title track it's referring to me and my girlfriend. And sometimes it means me and my group of friends.
OK-Tho:
20$ Admiral Nelson or 20$ Captain Morgan?
Red Pill:
Always used to go with Admiral Nelson. Don't remember it being $20 though lol. Nowadays I'm more $12 Seagram's Gin
OK-Tho:
In “Leonard Letdown” you say you’re “the game freezing right before your beat the final boss” amongst other sadly accurate examples of letdown. What was your video game career like growing up?
Red Pill:
Pretty limited to be honest. I kind of stopped caring about games when I got into music, so by the time I was in high school I never played. Early on though it was the classics. I had a Sega Genesis and Nintendo 64. I think to this day my favorite RPG is still Zelda: Ocarina of Time, so I'm pretty dated as far as that goes haha. My friends still game a lot, so I'll play GTA, Call of Duty, stuff like that when I hang out. The majority of my playing was on N64, Mario 64, Smash Brothers, Starfox, Zelda.
OK-Tho:
Is the Bum from “Blus” real? Can you tell us how the rest of the conversation went?
Red Pill:
It was a real interaction with a guy outside of a bar and he did say the line "all I brought was my habit". Other than that, the rest of the story was just leading up to that point.
OK-Tho:
Your next project is going to be an EP right? Any updates on that?
Red Pill:
Yes. Looking like a Fall release. Definitely more info on that soon.
OK-Tho:
How have you felt about your time with Mello Music Group?
Red Pill:
It's been great. Mike Tolle, who runs the label, has been nothing but helpful to me. They're a music first label, make great music first and let's try to make some money with it. He's invested in me, fought for me behind the scenes. Can't say enough about how happy I am to be with them. We're growing constantly, both from a label standpoint and my own artistic standpoint. It's been great.
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